Right On: Taking the measure of hope

Image courtesy of Pixabay, St. George News

OPINION — Are you hopeful about your future? Do you think your children will be better off than you are?

Your answers most likely indicate how comfortable you are with the country’s direction and which political party you support. And in no small measure that support depends on your values.

In a country as large and diverse as ours, citizens have a wide range of social and religious values. While claiming to celebrate this diversity, liberals all too often use the courts, not the ballot box, to force their one-size-fits-all social values onto an initially-unwilling public.

Two landmark Supreme Court decisions highlight how values continue to divide the country. Even after 35 years, the public remains about evenly split on abortion. The court’s recent same-sex marriage decision is more widely accepted but still opposed by a third of the country.

Social conservatives like me see ever-shifting liberal values as signs of the country’s continuing slide into moral relativism, tempering our hope for the future.

Differing values spill over into basic public policy issues and from there into identifying with one political party or another. Here are a few examples from a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll conducted last August:

  • Democrats are twice as likely as Republicans to say they never go to church.
  • Democrats are eight times as likely to favor immediate climate change action.
  • One-third of Republicans support the National Rifle Association while only 4 percent of Democrats do.
  • Forty-two percent of Republicans support traditional marriage between a man and a woman while just 17 percent of Democrats do.
  • Seventy-seven percent of Democrats are comfortable with the social changes of recent years; only 30 percent of Republicans are.

Where you live and how much education you have may affect your outlook.

Fifty-seven percent of urban citizens gave a high rating to the economy’s health while only 43 percent of rural residents saw it that way. Both rural residents and those without degrees are trending Republican.

Those with four-year college degrees are evenly split between the two parties at 36 percent each, both down from 2010. An increasing number call themselves independents.

Two-thirds of those with college degrees saw the economy as good or excellent. Only 47 percent of those without degrees felt that way.

Comparing poll results from 2010 with results from 2017 predictably shows partisan attitudes about the future. Democrats were more optimistic in 2010 while Republicans turned positive in 2017.

Divided we are, but are we headed off a cliff into terminal despair?

I believe there are reasons for hope mixed with caution.

The same Wall Street Journal/NBC poll showed voters from both parties are increasingly optimistic about the economy. A majority agreed with the statement, “The economy is working well for me and my family,” a dramatic 16 percent more than 2014. With the recent tax reform, this percentage would be significantly higher today.

I’m of the opinion that James Carville’s advice to presidential candidate Bill Clinton in 1992 still holds sway. He repeatedly reminded Clinton that “it’s the economy, stupid.”

A rising tide may not lift all boats, but it lifts enough of them to change the national mood and win elections. While Democrats focus single-mindedly on Trump’s myriad foibles, Republicans are counting on rising economic boats to sustain or enlarge their congressional majorities this fall.

Majorities in both parties agree that “immigration adds to our character and strengthens the United States.” A significant upswing since 2005 among Democrats was coupled with a more modest Republican increase. Why the Democratic change of heart? Democratic politicians began to see Hispanic immigrants as an ideal fit for one of their nefarious identity politics pigeon holes.

I’m somewhat hopeful because I can’t think of another noneconomic issue that will fan social and cultural fires. NFL protests are falling flat and Black Lives Matter is past its prime. Immigration policy issues are likely headed for workable compromise solutions since neither party can afford to leave the “dreamers” hanging.

I see further reason for hope in democracy’s continuing spread across the globe.

The Brookings Institution’s Bruce Jones and Michael O’Hanlon explain that democracy has had recent setbacks in the Philippines, Turkey and Venezuela. But when people instead of countries are counted, over the last 12 years an additional 150 million of the world’s 7.5 billion people are living in free countries. Setbacks for Hungary’s 10 million citizens are more than offset by Indonesia’s democratic progress for its 261 million people.

How about some more good news?

The World Health Organization unveiled a new cheap and effective cholera vaccine.

Cancer deaths have dropped 25 percent in the United States since 1991, saving more than 2 million lives. Breast cancer deaths have fallen by 39 percent, saving over 300,000 women.

Half of all people worldwide suffering from HIV/AIDS are now getting treatment.

Leprosy is now easily treated and may be eliminated worldwide by 2020.

Global deaths from tuberculosis have fallen by 37 percent, saving over 50 million lives.

Nearly 1.2 billion people have gained access to electricity in the last 16 years.

So will our children have better lives than we do? Will we somehow muddle through?

I believe that will depend on whether or not all this economic and scientific progress is overshadowed by society’s creeping moral decay.

Howard Sierer is an opinion columnist for St. George News. The opinions stated in this article are his own and may not be representative of St. George News.

Email: [email protected]

Twitter: @STGnews

Copyright St. George News, SaintGeorgeUtah.com LLC, 2018, all rights reserved.

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  • No Filter March 8, 2018 at 8:47 am

    One thing we can all agree on is that both parties have extreme sides to them in which none of us benefit if they are in power. Clinton was not a prime candidate but in my opinion better than Trump. We will always have a divide in our country and this can be good to keep us balanced, but we do come together for important matters like our veterans and most recently our children, well sort of I guess. I watch both sides of the news to get my perspective and CNN is as bad as Fox news is in pushing far right or left agendas. Gone are the days of getting our news from Dan Rather on the evening news. We now depend on 24 hour newscast and Facebook post to educate us about our country. I think we can all agree that these are not healthy for our country. I like to think of myself as a independent, but I lean to the left on many social issues, but I also support some right views when it comes to smaller government and protecting our borders (not the wall, that is a stupid idea). One thing I do take offense to is how you blame the left for the moral decay of the country, just because you don’t go to church does not mean you have no morals. Morals are not strictly made in a church. It seems rather convenient that you only show parts of the survey that your right wing base likely will agree on. You are attacking the left and glorifying the right just like the rest of the right wing media does. I understand you are not a reporter, just an opinion writer, but people like you have become the problem in society. We want news not opinions, and this kind of journalism is the decay of our country, not that garbage you posted today about gay marriage and lack of people going to church causing our countries decay. What harm does it do to allow someone to love who they want regardless of their sex, and why is it so important to go to church? I don’t need a God to tell me whats right or wrong, I can do that for myself, just like millions of others in the world.

    • bikeandfish March 8, 2018 at 10:15 am

      Well said.

    • comments March 8, 2018 at 12:35 pm

      Yep, it is very much both the left and right causing moral decay in our country. Both ruling parties are corrupt to their cores. MSM is biased, corrupt, beholden to advertising and ownership interests. We have very little truly free press left in our nation, and they sure as hell aren’t the major networks. There may be a few newspapers out there– the ones still alive. I don’t know which, right off hand. Investigative journalism is also a dying thing. It simply is overwhelmed with corruption from money interests. A true democracy cannot exist w/o a free press. Keep your guns people; if Big Brother gov’t actually attains a massive gun grab it’ll be game over for this democracy. cheers, people 😉

      • bikeandfish March 8, 2018 at 1:26 pm

        We’ve got plenty of free, honest press in this country. Cable news and internet clickbait sites are an issue but we have a ton of high quality journalist and media in this country. The last couple presidents have interfered in the process and trust of it but the hyperbolic anti-MSM is founded on a bunch of problematic assumptions.

        Per investigative journalism….its also alive and well. Those sources tend to rely on subscriptions though, so make sure you help fund them. But its investigative journalist that have been keeping the government’s and business’s feet to the flames over the years.

      • Striker4 March 9, 2018 at 1:23 am

        You need to get back on your meds Prophet Bob

  • theone March 8, 2018 at 10:02 am

    Immoral social conservative thugs.
    There, that about sums up the moral decay.
    Your objective morals are in decline because people are tired of being bullied by your doctrine.
    Your church standards will no longer apply to reality and good riddance.
    We are becoming far more moral in acceptance, tolerance, and the general health of society as we stomp out the religious so called moral compass.
    The fairy tale god you thrust on us will die with you as we progress as a species.

    • Utahguns March 8, 2018 at 5:11 pm

      You are one angry, ungrateful and probably unloved individual.

      • theone March 8, 2018 at 5:30 pm

        Actually, I’m rational and just sick of listening to these uninclusive moral thugs.

  • Bender March 8, 2018 at 12:14 pm

    Bullet point 4 above, “Forty-two percent of Republicans support traditional marriage between a man and a woman while just 17 percent of Democrats do”, is a dishonest rephrasing of the actual survey question “Do you favor or oppose allowing gay and lesbian couples to enter into same-sex marriages?”.

  • bikeandfish March 8, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    You said:

    “In a country as large and diverse as ours, citizens have a wide range of social and religious values. While claiming to celebrate this diversity, liberals all too often use the courts, not the ballot box, to force their one-size-fits-all social values onto an initially-unwilling public.”

    Does it really matter if citizens agree or disagree with abortion given SCOTUS has ruled it constitutional, with caveats?

    Does it matter if citizens agree or disagree with same sex marriage given SCOTUS has ruled it constitutional and restricted the state’s ability to infringe on it?

    I’m shocked I have to actually ask these questions to a self-proclaimed conservative. If you say yes to those questions Howard than you value a form of tyranny, ie “tyranny of the majority”, over personal liberty. Our founders inherently limited the common sentiment and opinion of its citizens by designing our republic the way they did, ie not a direct democracy. We have a constitution and courts to allow those whose liberty has been infringed upon to seek recourse and they have in both of those issues. Your above statement is ridiculous given that reality and the oppression of individuals under your preferred religions morals.

    The fact is nothing about either of those issues infringes on your freedoms, life, liberty or pursuit of happiness. They don’t diminish your marriage or parenting. They don’t affect your safety. Etc. Etc. But social conservatives are dead set on forcing others to live by their narrow definition of morality which stands in stark contrast to the spirit and meaning of liberty.

    This is why the marriage of evangelicals and traditional conservatives is so problematic. Its oxymoronic to consider oneself a conservative under classic definitions and yet believe the state should be able to infringe on a person’s basic choices of spouse and family.

    Our country isn’t experiencing moral decay. We are slowly experiencing what its like to expand personal liberty and justice to all, not just the ones white straight christians think deserve it.

    • comments March 9, 2018 at 1:22 am

      Are you in a homosexual ‘marriage’, bike? Were you the ‘bride’ or the ‘groom’?

      • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 9:31 am

        There isn’t homosexual marriage or heterosexual marriage, there is just marriage.

    • comments March 9, 2018 at 1:36 am

      When the day comes when two homosexual men find some way to naturally produce a child together then we can call it a marriage. Same rule goes for lesbis– you gotta find a way to do it w/o the sperm, and a hermaphrodite don’t count– that’s a cop out.

      • No Filter March 9, 2018 at 8:30 am

        Your definition of marriage is only one that is defined by your church which holds no legal merit, the true definition of marriage is “the state of being united as spouses in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law”. Marriage is seen in many different ways depending on where you live in the world. The only thing any church can do is not recognize a marriage for church purposes. You don’t have to get married in a church to make it legal and the law doesn’t require it to be between a man and a woman. You can scream and shout that marriage is between a man and a woman all you want, but all you will do is waste your breath.

        • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 9:29 am

          Indeed. Not married in a church or by a priest myself. My significant other and I married for romantic love not for some narrow religious view on reproduction.

        • comments March 9, 2018 at 11:37 am

          I wish the whole institution of marriage had just been killed altogether than see two gay men or two lesbians thinking they are a “married” couple. You leftists and your homosexual marriages is as much a perversion as polygamous marriage. Marriage was far more about a societal function that it ever was about religion. Now it’s all about Lester and Larry being able to share each others SS check and health plan. It’s a disgrace. The ‘anything goes’ mentality of leftists is what will bring you down in the end. A child is meant to have a mother AND a father. The mormon plygs are every bit as degenerate; they don’t get a pass.

          • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 12:49 pm

            Narrow minds and callous hearts.

          • No Filter March 9, 2018 at 1:16 pm

            Please do enlighten me on why a child must have a mother and a father? There is no study that that proves your point. The only data we have is that children raised by a single parent generally have a harder time growing up, but more for the lack of parental supervision, not the lack of a certain sex parent figure.

          • comments March 9, 2018 at 2:26 pm

            “but more for the lack of parental supervision, not the lack of a certain sex parent figure.”

            Great big B to the S. Where’s your “studies” on that…….


      • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 8:55 am

        So opposite sex couples that don’t have kids aren’t married?

        • comments March 9, 2018 at 11:40 am

          If you leftists would’ve called them ‘civil unions’ it would be a lot easier to roll along with, although i’m still opposed to it.


          • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 12:48 pm

            Its a good thing that your ideas don’t carry more value or weight than constitutional protections in our Constitutional democracy.

            Your ideas are no different than those posited in the past to prevent interracial marriages. We’ll keep carrying the ball forward for justice no matter the lengths folks like you will go to rationalize discrimination.

            The benefit of our current system is you get to happily have your “civic duty” marriage and others can have their own reason to marry the person they love. But I guarantee you that my gay and lesbian friends are raising healthy and happy families, biological and adopted. Ironically, empirical science has shown that lesbian couples actually raise some of the most successful and well adjusted citizens in the US. Its always interesting how reality moves forward beyond the narrowness of ideologies.

          • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 12:53 pm

            PS…if conservatives didn’t discriminate for ages this wouldn’t have needed to be resolved in a SCOTUS trial that protected same sex couples with all the same rights that prejudiced citizens like yourself tried to deny them all along. Your worldview was the self-inflicted wound to its own policy. The irony is amazing.

          • No Filter March 9, 2018 at 1:31 pm

            Just because you type something in all caps, doesn’t make it any more true than other words. If you have a problem with the federal law regarding same sex marriage, take it up with your representatives. Besides the law doesn’t make you marry a person of the same sex, it just gives people the right to marry someone they love regardless of their sexual orientation. Maybe you should seek counseling to find out why this bothers you so badly. Maybe it is because you believe the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman and that homosexuality is evil. Well news flash my friend the bible is not law, it is a fictional book written many years ago and although it has a large impact on the world, it still is fiction.

          • comments March 9, 2018 at 2:36 pm

            Fish man & no filter cigarettes,

            you people are the reason we have the donald as ‘leader of the free world’

            you’ve taken your ‘anything goes’ leftism so far that ur out in lala land. Ur both just out of touch.

            and filter, i’m an unbeliever. why go making assumptions? notice the word ‘ass’ in ASSumption–that applies to you.

            A monkey (or an ape, if u wanna be anal about it) shares 99% of dna with humans. Name one reason you leftists can’t go marrying monkeys?

          • No Filter March 9, 2018 at 3:23 pm

            If you want to marry a monkey I would have no problem with that it’s your life, but I believe you would have to check with your local laws. Beastality is illegal in most if not all states, so you may have to keep it a secret. If our local laws don’t permit it, I have heard of people marrying animals in India so you could always go there, but the US may not recognize it as a legal marriage. Just make sure it’s a girl monkey, we wouldn’t want people getting the wrong idea about you would we.

          • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 4:02 pm


            We have Tonald Dumpster Fire because enough Americans voted fir him in key electoral college states.
            I have no doubt some of Trump’s voters chose him out of spite for having to adapt to a new world. Some also have no problem burning it all down to prove a point. But the only fault lies with those who voted for him.

            But its not my job to console people who can’t adapt to “freedom for all”, not just those a dominant believes deserve it.

            You constantly use inflammatory, fallacious logic which indicates tonne you don’t have any substance to your idea beyond wanting your discrimination to be validated and law. You won’t get that from me. Liberty and the Constitution are designed to protect people from a dominant group’s intolerant and oppressive habits. Get use to that behavior being limited as the arc of American justice is towards greater inclusion in the full franchise of personal liberty, not less.

            The monkey concept is lazy and fallacious rhetoric not worth more than naming it as such. It just exposes your homophobic tendencies and the lengths you’ll go to rationalize your inhumane prejudices.

          • comments March 9, 2018 at 7:23 pm

            Me, and millions upon millions of others don’t agree with this leftist ‘anything goes’ free-for-all of degeneracy. You go ahead and wallow in it. It seems to be legal; that doesn’t mean it’s a good thing to be doing. There will be resistance to all you lunatic leftists. Get used to it.

          • comments March 9, 2018 at 7:24 pm

            ” fallacious logic which indicates tonne you don’t have any substance to your idea”

            and what?

          • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 9:34 pm

            The last one you questioned was a phone autocorrect I didn’t catch. Need to delete my phone’s autocorrect cache as its become polluted with mistakes.

            Should have read “fallacious logic which indicates to me you don’t have any substance to your idea.”

            At the end of the day it doesn’t matter if you and millions of Americans disagree with same sex marriage. And its not that it “seems” to be legal but that it is a protected right according to SCOTUS.

          • comments March 9, 2018 at 11:40 pm

            SCOTUS is an undemocratic and even treasonous apparatus of our gov’t. Something should’ve been done when SCOTUS starting appointing presidents.

            I’m just a little fish in a big sea. I do the best I can in my little corner, but the moral decay will eventually lead this country to destruction. But the gays get to go around telling everyone they’re “married”, men can claim to be women and it’s taboo to question it, so all must be well in the world of leftist lunacy, right?

            You leftists are foolish. foolish foolish

          • bikeandfish March 10, 2018 at 10:49 am

            Ha, now the SCOTUS is undemocratic. That’s hilarious.

            I think what you mean, given your collection of statements, is that SCOTUS should support the tyranny of homophobic citizens or have their legitimacy challenged. You clearly don’t understand how our Constitution and democratic republic was designed and structured. When reactionaries like you start questioning the legitimacy of our checks and balances than we know you are reaching for straws to reclaim your ever slipping dominance. Quite simply, our Constitution denies you any power in oppressing fellow citizens no matter how many prejudicial justifications you scream into the wind.

            Feel free to live your liberty but know American history and justice does not bode well for those who attempt to deny others the same freedoms.

  • ladybugavenger March 9, 2018 at 6:59 pm

    I came,here fgor the comments….Bob, you’re not allowed to say you’re against gay marriage and that you are “atheist” its bad for business. Also yore labeled homophobic if you’re against gay marriage…..yawn! It’s the same ole responses. Boring!

    • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 9:30 pm

      If you believe in depriving homosexual citizens of the full American franchise then yes, you are homophobic. Its prejudicial and targeted discrimination. The fact is you know the label is accurate as it fits the definition and you embrace the discrimination. But you also know the name is meant to stigmatize. Welcome to cognitive dissonance.

      • ladybugavenger March 10, 2018 at 8:29 am

        I wasn’t out here in the world protesting or voting against gay marriage. I was in my home asking, wonder when Jesus is coming back?

        I think you should have the full experience of marriage and divorce. People get married for all the wrong reasons, it’s not even sacred anymore. It’s almost meaningless (except for filing taxes).

        You have a right to experience infidelity, marital problems, jealousy, domestic disputes, and an ugly divorce. Let me add, you also have a right to get an STD. The odds are 50/50 your marriage will last. There is no sanctity in marriage. It was lost. But you have a right. And I have a right to say a marriage is between a man and a woman. I have a right to say, gross. When I think of two men together, I think of a sausage in a bun. 2 women? Gross. I’m not happy with these visuals.

        My question is why would you want to get married? Is it for tax cuts?

        P.S. You need to stop calling people homophobic for being against gay marriage. It’s repetitive and untrue.

        You have a right to be miserable in your marriage and feel trapped, just like 50% of men and women who’s marriages have failed and ended in divorce.

        You think you can do it better? Go for it.

        The world is going to hell in a hand basket. I’m not in that basket. ?

        I’m ready, call me names, and use your mumbo jumbo to spin your point.

        • bikeandfish March 10, 2018 at 10:39 am

          Homophobic: : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

          LBA has expressed a view that marriage is between man and a woman as well as inflammatory statements about homosexual sex, ie hotdog in a bun. That rightfully equates to a “aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals” hence LBA, and comments, core beliefs are called homophobic.

          You have expressed a cognitive dissonance with that fact as your beliefs are inconsistent with your claim that you aren’t homophobic. You have a choice to change one or the other. If you sincerely value your core homophobic beliefs than embrace them and accept that society will rightfully stigmatize your abhorrent discrimination. If you value equality and non-prejudicial values than abandon your homophobic ideas and move forward and support equality.

          But you can’t have it both ways and expect fellow citizens not ton call you out.

          • ladybugavenger March 10, 2018 at 11:24 am

            I’m making up a word heterophobic. Just use the same definition but add straight instead of gay.

            You’re so blind you can’t even see.what are you calling me out On? That I believe the Bible is ,God’s word? What? You gonna call me delusional, irrational, homophobic, and every other thing you can come up with and that somehow I have a fear of you…. please b&f the only fear I have, is the fear of Almighty God.

            You are out of control, you’re argumentative, we will never see eye to eye, for you put yourself on a pedestool. And frankly, I’m afraid of heights and the splat on the ground after falling. You stay on your pedestool. I’ll stay grounded.

            I’m not for equality. I would rather not have ,the right to work as a woman. It’s too hard, raising children, working, putting kids in daycare that cost more than wages earned while other adults raise your kids….how about both parents working and still on government assistance food stamps, daycare. It happens…
            ,my kids are all grown up and I live modestly, but I remember the struggles. And so does every other child of a baby boomer that wasn’t raised by parents that were home.

            No, I’m not for equality. I’m for a man working, making a wage that supports a family….that went all out the window when woman wanted rights. And now minimum wage is not even enough to live and prices of everything, including college and toilet paper, have risen to a level that is uncomparable to wage vs expense of cost of living in the 70’s. This equality crap came at a cost. Family dynamic is lost.

            So you’re right this equality crap has put a burden on everyone. Just imagine the damage in 40 years that your “equal rights” is going to bring.

          • bikeandfish March 10, 2018 at 11:44 am

            Then it sounds like we are in agreement that you are proudly homophobic.

            Pretty interesting that it only took one definition to correct you and then you volunteered that you are against eauality. Its interesting how powerful fact can be at weeding out more truth.

          • bikeandfish March 10, 2018 at 11:50 am

            PS..you didn’t make up the word heterophobia, it already existed. You just don’t hear it as much because our laws and society don’t have a way of oppressing and discriminating against heterosexuality. For clarity, a loss of political dominance and hegemony is not the same as discrimination. You have every right to live your life freely as a heterosexual. You just longer get to discriminate and oppress homosexuals with laws and policy. You deserve not pity for being expected to accept that reality.

          • bikeandfish March 10, 2018 at 11:51 am

            *just no longer

          • ladybugavenger March 10, 2018 at 8:26 pm

            I proudly state that the best friend a woman can have are gay men. Oh! And I proudly state I love Freddy Mercury!

            As for gay marriage, I don’t accept it as much as I don’t accept and can’t comprehend that my sons girlfriend is older than me… what are you gonna call me cougarphobic?

            Just keep’n it real.
            You’re speaches do not draw me closer to your side. In fact, you sound like a pompous a$$. Perhaps some love would go along way. Do you know how to love people that disagree with you? Are you capable of such love?

          • comments March 10, 2018 at 10:22 pm

            I believe deep down that bike’s intentions are good.

            LOL LBa, how did ur family get to be so dysfunctional? Son got snagged up by a cougar now? lol


          • bikeandfish March 10, 2018 at 10:24 pm

            Love? I ascribe to the mantra that it’s fair to be intolerant of intolerance, ie intolerance that limits the liberty of others. Love has nothing to do with that conversation and I don’t tend to love random strangers over the internet.

            Only a small fraction of conversations like this are justified by trying to change your mind, especially when the person makes it clear they have no desire to change. But we use words like homophobic as it stigmatizes and resists the spread of the prejudicial discrimination you espouse. At some point it becomes about simply naming your behavior for what it truly is.

            Nice attempt at deflection but it won’t work. Don’t expect “love” when you advocate denying fellow citizens basic rights. Advocating such discrimination deserves every ounce of disrespect it encounters. That is how stigma works.

            (PS… engaging in self-serving cliches and “loving” the music of one gay man doesn’t limit ones ability to engage in homophobia)

          • ladybugavenger March 12, 2018 at 6:38 am

            Bob, we put the fun in dysfunctional lol

    • comments March 9, 2018 at 11:43 pm

      LOL LBA, Bikefish being ‘wedlocked’ into a homosexual ‘marriage’ actually explains a lot, but he wouldn’t tell me if he’s the ‘bride’ or the ‘groom’. And it is, it’s the same old same old

      too funny 😉

    • comments March 9, 2018 at 11:47 pm

      hahahah, and yes an “atheist” being against homosexual ‘marriage’ betrays the sacred atheist covenant. I guess i’m an apostate to atheism.


  • bikeandfish March 9, 2018 at 9:50 pm


    I should clarify, only a minority of Americans disagree with same sex marriage, but that does mean millions. Its not “leftist liberals” but mainstream acceptance; 62% of Americans support while 32% disagree with it. Even conservatives/republicans are split 50/50 now, for the first time. In other words, welcome to the wrong side of history and American equality.

    Calling it “anything goes” is a failure. Recognizing that individual citizens should be allowed to pursue marriage without regard to sex, gender, race, age, or religion isn’t “anything goes”, its liberty. Homophobes will keep throwing their hissy fits because our country no longer takes you seriously but that doesn’t stop those of us who care about eauality and the Constitution from pursuing freedom for all.

    It sounds like you need a civics refresher that includes SCOTUS and how their rulings affect law and enforcement.

    • comments March 10, 2018 at 12:55 am

      at one time slavery was supported by a majority
      and segregation
      and women had no right to vote
      too many other examples to list

      those of us supporting traditional marriage may be a minority now, but that does not put us on the wrong side of morality

      The rampant degeneracy and perversion of these types of things will only go on for so long

      Leftists have so many fooled now, but this won’t last, because it’s based on lies.

      • bikeandfish March 10, 2018 at 10:26 am

        So you keep repeating the same prejudicial talking points but never address what matters, ie do you have any support for your belief that homosexuals don’t deserve equal protection under the law?

        Your examples of slavery (and then Jim Crow) and women’s franchise are examples of denying citizens equal protection, ie what you are advocating. Slaves were considered less than human; women were considered less than deserving; integration was considered harmful; interracial marriage was considered degenerate. Those are the equivalent side of history you are on.

        Our Constitution was designed to protect fellow citizens from prejudicial and oppressive actions like you advocate. Welcome to a constitutional democracy in which you can’t use your ideology to deny life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to another citizen.

      • bikeandfish March 10, 2018 at 12:09 pm

        PS… there is no singular source or definition of morality. I believe you have actually made that claim yourself, ironically.

  • ladybugavenger March 10, 2018 at 10:11 am

    Before y’all get your panties in an uproar about my number of 50% and 50/50….youre right that that is not accurate. In my family, it’s much higher and some of them have 2 or more divorces under the belt ?

    It takes more than “love” to make a marriage last.

    • bikeandfish March 10, 2018 at 11:54 am

      Its interesting how many christians divorce despite claiming the moral center of the universe. And then people try to rationalize it away as an issue of true believers to exclude the Christians that undermine their argument.

      • ladybugavenger March 10, 2018 at 6:45 pm

        B&f I come from God haters and Christian haters. That’s what I was subjected to as a child, my mother and grandparents had nothing nice to say about my aunt and uncles going to church. My sister and I were subjected to hate christians . but i learned the hard way, that God exists. Praise the Lord! Thank you Jesus! If you learn one thing, learn this: God loves you!

  • ladybugavenger March 12, 2018 at 11:16 am

    With your,logic, b&f, multiple wives and husband’s should be legal to marry lol…your depriving them of their basic right to marry however many people they want..it’s not hurting anybody, right? ….sounds stupid huh? It’s your logic tho.

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