OPINION – Said Mahatma Gandhi, “Intolerance betrays want of faith in one’s cause.”
Intolerance is like a Halloween party. It shows up with many different masks. Too often the mask is a mask of the mask itself. What?
A mask is intended to disguise the wearer’s identity from those who would routinely recognize him. The mask allows the disguised person to act outside their normal restraints and daily conduct.
St. George, Washington County, and maybe the entire state of Utah are still predominantly Mormon (the slang name for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its adherents). The Church has some interesting if not unique doctrines. To “active members,” those doctrines are held in the highest esteem.
Due to the “Mormon” culture, this region of the country is often viewed as possessing a clique mentality. Another way of stating that is to use the phrase that “Mormons are intolerant.” This implies that the Mormon culture seeks actively to shun others and close them out.
One of the more offensive ways of saying this is the repetitive commentary on Facebook and Twitter posts, and responses to news stories, criticizing “Mormon control” of this area of Utah. To me that is simply a silly, uninformed, and naïve reaction. Who am I kidding? It’s just plain stupid.
The LDS Church and its adherents (of which, in full disclosure, I am one) wear no masks. There is nothing in their values that is hidden. The conduct of some members is possibly questionable, but that is as it is with all people. Does the LDS Church attempt to hide from the doctrine of The Word of Wisdom? Not at all. The LDS Church openly teaches it and openly preaches it. No mask there.
Similarly, does the LDS Church advocate against behaviors which they deem detrimental to society. Again, the answer is yes, and without a mask.
My intolerance surfaces toward those who misrepresent the LDS Church and the historical values of this region, under the guise (mask) of tolerating different religions and values. Rather than simply coming forward and saying “I want more bars so I can drink without discretion and without having to drive a long way,” they pretend to speak about openness.
Take off your mask of deception and state what you are really after. To this observer these pretend efforts are the truer mark of intolerance. I use as an example one St. George City Council Candidate who recently said “St. George has a rich history, with great people. Deep local roots and folksy personas have historically been desirable traits in elected leaders. However, …”
That “however” hides the fact that this particular candidate has repeatedly been critical of the custom, culture, and community of St. George. She has advocated an essential need for betterment of the community through constant intolerance of what is this community.
That approach of “tear it down at any cost” is just another extension of the intolerance shown in the hypocrisy of a few national mouthpieces for hatred. Rather than accepting that any system may make a mistake 1 percent of the time, these advocates of anger ignore the 99 percent of the time that it does work. And that ignorance happens 100 percent of the time. We are not escaping that ignorance living right here in “Mayberry” – as the local hatemongers are so fond of calling St. George.
Yet, the majority of the people, and it is a significant majority, politely tolerate the incessant harping by the intolerant. Now, why would they do that? It is because they are in fact the truly tolerant people. They desire to be neither masters nor controllers of others. But, like any other person or group of people they attempt to influence people towards what they deem to be a good lifestyle. The critics, with their own intolerance, simply oppose any positive message that does not propagandize their own self-righteousness.
We have become a society of “fazebook fanatics.” We find something tolerable to become intolerant toward. But it is only a “faze.”
Tomorrow will bring a new egregious event for us to howl at the moon over. This is especially true of wannabee waifs; those that run for office using their own “Good Ol’ Boy” group of naysayers to beat down the incumbent’s so-called “Good Ol’ Boy” network. They have no steadfast issue. They only offer intolerance toward one “faze” after another.
The question this coming Tuesday, August 13, in the primary election is really whether you the voter will tolerate more intolerance. The ballot is the truest expression of tolerance or intolerance. So, go out and express yourself. It is as important this year as in any previous year.
That is the Way I See It.
William Way is an opinion columnist. The opinions stated in this article are his and not representative of St. George News. Additional writings may be found at wwwjr.wordpress.com.
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Twitter: @STGnews
Copyright St. George News, SaintGeorgeUtah.com LLC, 2013, all rights reserved.
Exactly…! Great article/opinion. Shared
Yawn
“One of the more offensive ways of saying this is the repetitive commentary on Facebook and Twitter posts, and responses to news stories, criticizing “Mormon control” of this area of Utah. To me that is simply a silly, uninformed, and naïve reaction. Who am I kidding?
It’s just plain stupid.”
I am glad that is YOUR personal opinion and not the opinion of people who are not in the church or are now out of the church. The ignorance of you calling people “plain stupid” who do not share your opinion is ludicrous. I have personally heard several Bishops of the LDS church tell their followers that we need to keep control and to vote for what is “right” as the church see’s it. That is your “Mormon control” taking hold. Sounds a lot like you are “propagandize your own self-righteousness”.
“But, like any other person or group of people they attempt to influence people towards what they deem to be a good lifestyle. ”
Yes this is true, but once again, thinking that just because they believe it is right and that everyone else must as well shows the close mined mentally in the area. There are a lot of people with this mentally in our area and they can not see that just because it is what they “deem to be a good lifestyle” that it is not the same for everyone.
” The critics, with their own intolerance, simply oppose any positive message that does not propagandize their own self-righteousness.”
Wow, this goes both ways and not just for the critics of the Mormon church or its people. Your views in this article prove that. We are a changing, growing community and that needs to be embraced as well.
“We are not escaping that ignorance living right here in “Mayberry” – as the local hatemongers are so fond of calling St. George.”
How dare you and who are you to call people who do not agree with you or your values “hatemongers”? Our community has drastically changed in all demographics and yet the majority of the “Good ol Boy Mormon community” do not want to see that they are no longer alone in the community. We are have become a very diverse community and the “Good ol Boys’ have to open their eyes to see this and to realize there are other opinions that matter and not just theirs.
“That “however” hides the fact that this particular candidate has repeatedly been critical of the custom, culture, and community of St. George. She has advocated an essential need for betterment of the community through constant intolerance of what is this community.”
I am sorry to tell you, evidently you can not see it, but this community has been changing for years and “this community” is for everyone and not ones with just specific values. We need to embrace everyone’s values and beliefs into our community because it is no longer the “Mayberry” it used to be. We are now a multi-cultural, multi-faceted community that does not all share the exact same views of what a community should be.
I am sorry sir, but your comments are “simply silly, uninformed, and a naïve reaction” and ” just plain stupid”, your own words, to how our community has been changing for years and will continue to do so. We have more outside influence then we have ever had in our community and sooner or later this will have to be embraced by all as outside influences bring change, good or bad. We live in a community that is now ever changing and not just stuck with one set of values and I can only hope that one day this will be embraced by the masses.
Cathy,
You are absolutely right. His tone, name-calling antics, and one-sided view are, I feel, offensive to all. Especially those who his comments are slandering. Many, if not all of whom, are good people living fantastic, happy lives.
But here’s the rub. Let’s not all call each other names. I know the article is infuriating, but where does that get us? You have every right to express your opinion, as I am laying claim to mine right now, but I’m not seeing any of this getting us anywhere.
This comment deserves a reaction, and perhaps a harsher reaction, but I’m not even the writer of this article and I feel reprimanded by your words?
This may just be because, like everyone, I want to help, but I’m selfish. Often I can not see past my own views and become wrapped up in how they don’t match up with everyone’s.
Cathy, I’m certainly guilty of what you are speaking against. I feel I have been branded and marked as a person who you would never even consider a friend. but please understand that there is a person with bright potential and full of good intentions and those things shine through at times. I do make mistakes. I do help other people.
I hope you can forgive those who have wronged you, and Cathy, forgive this bystander for being just like them.
Baha. Without a doubt, that was the most one sided look at a problem I have ever seen. On several occasions I have been the victim of Mormon bigotry. It has happened in employment when a prospective employer demanded “Mormon Values” before hiring. I have seen it many times in THe Senior Sampler when somebody is looking for home health care or other types of help. Many times “Mormon Values” is part of the add. I know people who rent out homes who discriminate towards anyone who isn’t belonging to the Church. This is not just a couple isolated incidents but a common occurrence. The hiring practices of LDS business owners or managers regularly discriminate against non-members. To deny it happens is foolish or you are wearing blinders. I was once a member and can recall meetings where it was openly encouraged to give preferential treatment to members when hiring. It happens all the time and is common practice. Your silly denial is a weak attempt at—-well, I am just not sure what you are trying to say. I do thank you for the laugh tho. I really did this time. …LOL
This is the most hateful and divisive kind of writing. Mr. Way spent a lot of words to basically say “you ain’t from ’round here, are ya?”
He thinks that by suggesting a candidate is anti-LDS, other Mormons will dumb enough to believe it. The truth is that the anti-good-ol-boy group is growing to include both members and non-members who are sick of the closed-door mentality in city govt. These are the death throes of their power base. William Way’s hateful and divisive rhetoric betrays the desperation of the crowd that he represents.
There is a lot of name calling in this article, not sure that calling anyone who disagrees with you ‘silly, uninformed, niave, stupid, a hatemonger, fazebook fanatics,’, or accusing them of just wanting to have super easy access to ways to get drunk, is a great way to win over opinions. As someone who is a member of the LDS church I am embarrassed by the hateful tone in this article.
You really showed them with that article. That is exactly the motive of these new whipper snappers trying to come in and make changes to our ways. Shame on them. Things would have been so much better if we had just never let anybody in to this state that has a different mentality than the ones that founded this great state of Utah. I don’t even think we should allow a separation of Church and State. Forget that Wall of Separation and what not. It is not God’s way.
This is sarcastic right? If not this very statement right here describes your average cult. Keep non church members far away from us… Really?
Yeah. Mormons are the most tolerant people on the planet. Just ask the blacks and the gays. They will tell you.
interesting and well written
Sounded like a rant to me.
The article’s author states “But, like any other person or group of people they attempt to influence people towards what they deem to be a good lifestyle.”
Really? Like any other person or group? This reveals the prevailing LDS mentality, and why it is so offensive to non-LDS persons. If you lead a “good lifestyle, GOOD FOR YOU! Why do you feel it is necessary – or appropriate – to “influence people” to adopt the same lifestyle? This term is a thinly disguised euphemism for intimidation, coercion, and intolerance. In the daily lives of non-LDS people living in an LDS-dominated community, it is manifested as being pressured by friends, family, colleagues, and the community at large to believe as you do, think as you do, behave as you do, and to capitulate to obedience of LDS standards, which I find, in most cases, to be offensive and abhorrent. To say that others are intolerant of the LDS lifestyle, in a community that is strongly dominated by the LDS church is laughable. It’s equivalent to German Nazis of the 1940s suggesting that the Jews were intolerant of their lifestyle. I honestly don’t think LDS adherents will ever get it – I suppose it’s the groupthink of a predominant group blinded to the reality of their oppressive dominance.
Large numbers of members are leaving the Mormons. It may not seem that way in southern Utah but in Northern and Central Utah people have figured out what they have been beguiled by and are saying adieu.
Face it grandpa, the times they are a’changing. St. George might have been able to stay in the 1800’s for a while, but there are a lot of kids and young adults that will change your hidden hamlet.
Get ready.
While I respect your opinion, I disagree with it.
On many occasions I have been discriminated against because I am not LDS. I’ve been denied jobs, I’ve been denied apartments, and I lost friends in high school because I was not LDS. I am a law abiding citizen, I don’t treat others badly, I use my turn signal and I don’t have wild parties at midnight. And yet…..I’m not LDS so I’m somehow scum and get treated like a criminal because I don’t attend the same church and have no interest in attending it. Please tell me how the LDS are so accepting? They don’t accept non LDS people, blacks, gays, and woman are accepted as long as they have lots of babies and keep their mouths shut……
Let’s hear about this topic from someone who IS NOT part of the majority. Wouldn’t that make more sense?
It is rather akin to a white person’s argument that racism doesn’t exist (and that black people are “intolerant” towards white people for being intolerant of their intolerance…).
I find what William has said to be very true. Anti-Mormon trolls LOVE to say the Church is intolerant of people, when in fact, the people making the accusations are bigoted themselves and the Church is the tolerant one. I’m sharing this one with my friends! Thanks William!
LOL!!!!!!!
Right, the LDS Church is totally tolerant, just ask the gays . . . and the blacks . . . and the Fancher party (Google it) . . . and anyone who won’t bow their head and say yes. Backlash to bigotry is not bigotry, it’s backlash. In the church’s case, it’s very much deserved.
Really, Bill, this is an article that says nothing of value. By the way, the candidate you criticize is a native of St George, and you are not. In fact, you have only been here a very short time. Who do you think knows this community and its needs better? I’ll give you a hint. It’s not you.
Just wait till you are in business and the person tells you,”I’m sorry I can’t use you since you’re not a mormon, my bishop will be made at me”.” Yeah real tolerant religion
I grew up in the Midwest and raised in LDS religion. I have never seen as much intolerance for people until I moved to Utah. I left the church after I moved to Utah because I couldn’t allow myself to be associated with groups of people who secluded others, judged with little or no hesitation, gossiped behind the backs of others, and worried more about being one of the “jones’s” than simply loving, respecting, and helping another human being. I have lived in the northern, central, and southern regions of the state and have experienced the same behaviors statewide. I am not claiming that everyone in Utah or the LDS religion acts in these manners. But, the majority of the people I have met from Utah behave in ways that make me question the values of mankind. Its easy to blame the LDS religion because it does plays a major role and influence in the culture of Utah. However, it may be just that, the culture of the state. LDS or not, Utahns in general seem to be more closed-minded and unaccepting of diversity. Maybe the state as a whole needs a wake up to tolerance, and not the religion. Just a thought.
Well said, “Yesman”.
Yes, we’ll said!
I’d like to chime in on this interesting article. First, I am NOT a part of the LDS church. I’ve never been a member and I never will. And I am not a hatemonger either. I have lived in Utah since 1984 and quite frankly, I like this area. I really like that there is only 1 bar in town. In fact, I met my husband at that very bar (it was called Knute & Clydes at the time). I was the DD (designated driver) the night I met him and here we are today married 28-years. If that bar did not exist, I may have never met my man. If there were many bars, I may not have met him that night either. He could have been at some other bar in town. So for that, I am truly grateful.
We have raised our family here, our grandchildren live here. Some of our kids moved away to find that greener grass and guess what… they’re heerre! That’s right folks, they like living in “Mayberry” as it’s been called. This is why people WANT to live here. We are just a community of neighbors. Isn’t that what most people want? And every community has those “special” people who have a limited view of the world around them, especially if it is different than the view they were taught growing up. Mr. Way’s point of view is proof positive. Gay activists are in that same group. They too want everyone to approve and support their views and they too belittle those who believe otherwise.
I can’t begin to count how many times I’ve been asked, “what ward are you in?” I simply respond, “the psych ward.” You should see the precious look on their face! Then I laugh. I have neighbors who are devout members of the Mormon church and yet are as charming and delightful as the Pastor that lives across the street. I also have other neighbors who are devout members of the Mormon church who hurry and look away if they see us outside. I won’t go as far as to say its because of their religion, its just their personality. You will have ignorant and stupid people everywhere you live.
I have an adult nephew who has chosen to live a homosexual lifestyle and choses to wear a tutu with his jeans. I don’t agree. A tutu with jeans looks stupid on anyone who is over the age of 5. Doesn’t mean I don’t love him or treat him with respect, but any adult who wears a tutu with their jeans will undoubtedly get looks of haughty derision, homosexual or not. Doesn’t mean they are hatemongers as Mr. Way lovingly describes.
Living in St. George (southern Utah) is truly a distinct privilege. If wages were high and housing low, we would have a madhouse on our hands. I have lived in many other states and truly, this is a great place. Do I make a boatload of money? No. Do I have a decent home and a job? Yes. Can I go out with friends and have dinner and drinks? Yes I can. I can live with the fact that the public pool and the recreation center is not open on Sunday. I have the other 6-days I could enjoy them, if I wanted to. I like that we are simply 2-hours out of Las Vegas and I can drive there to see a show or do some shopping or catch a flight to places other than SLC or Denver.
I agree we need some new perspectives in our local government. In fact, we should have term limits in all aspects of government. Because we are an imperfect society chock full of imperfect people, complacence can slowly creep in and their vision can be clouded. Some of our public leaders have good intentions. Some even do what the majority of the public desire. However, we ALL must share our vision with these leaders and we can do that by calling and emailing our leaders to share our expectations. Otherwise, they will believe that what they are doing is what the public desires. We ALL must show up at the polls and not leave it to the few. AND, if you don’t vote, you can’t complain.
Calling someone a “good ol’ boy” is stupid. And using that as a campaign motto is even dumber! Let’s be a community of neighbors, let’s be polite and kind. We must remember, people who have been essentially black-mailed into staying in a religion need some extra love and kindness. You do realize they will lose the love of their family and they fear they won’t be with them “forever,” don’t you? That is a consequence that has been drilled into them since they were small children.
Now, if we can just elect someone who will get other airlines to fly into our little “community of neighbors,” they would have my vote! I would even let them put a sign on my lawn and maybe even a bumper sticker on my car!
Betty: Thanks for your perspective. It’s insightful.
what. is this a joke? this is a joke.
Thank you, sir. I didn’t realize that nobody in Saint George gave a *…* about non-Mormons and our input, contributions, and even ability to function as a community member.
Wait a second…
Yes, I did.
Every. Single. Day.
Are you REALLY complaining that people are intolerant of being oppressed?
I’ve lived here 2.5 years and I still get people at my door trying to drag me to various church functions. People will befriend you only to convince you to go to church. MOST of the social interaction people have here is through church. Your kids make friends with kids in the ward, in scouts, in primary, in young men’s or young women’s. You go to relief society or patriarchy class. If you need to move, you’ve had a death in the family, or need help with something, you call the ward. When you’re not Mormon, or you leave the church, you lose all of this– OR the community outright “shuns” you. But it doesn’t stop there. Employers are sometimes biased in favor of Mormon employees. Yes, it’s true. Housing all demands “LDS standards”. Your existence somehow implies you’re waging war on religion. You get stared at for wearing a TANK TOP. Your teachers PREACH to you– in science class! My secularist group’s flyers, put up in various places around town with permission, get torn down within a couple of days– THAT is intolerance. I felt more love in ONE meeting at the Episcopal church than in YEARS in a Mormon church, because their acceptance didn’t come with the same “conditions”– and I’m a freaking black-belt level atheist.
Now you can say, “Tough, that’s our religion and you have to deal with it”, but it would be nice if you would at least recognize that I am a member of this community too.
As profoundly unwelcome as I have been made to feel here, I will be happy to leave when I have the means. And in over 20 years of living in Utah I will have no great stories to tell about my Mormon neighbors, thanks to men like you.
Ed. ellipsis: *…*
I’m not sure what the true point of this article is; however, I think it pointed out the ills of any community or the whole US society, especially where there is a polarizing group or religion. I move here in 2004 wanting a quiet, lower-crime place to live and raise my daughter. I was naive about the inflence of the LDS church. I watched my daughter being alienated by her peers because we are not members of “the church.” Introduced by those girls as, “not a member, but a nice person.” There seemed to be only two groups of kids at school, the LDS kids and “stoners” since she was neither she struggled to fit in and have friends. As soon as she was 18 y/o she fled the area and has vowed to never live her again. If “the church” teaches tolerance and acceptance, I think they forgot to teach the kids in semenary class. I’m not able to leave so easily, so I have to make the best of it by relying on lessons learned in my pre-retirement life.
I’ve dealt with the “good ole boy” issues. I was a woman in a man’s military. At one of my assignments, all business was conducted on the smoking patio because the chief was a smoker. I didn’t smoke, but soon learned in order to get heard or atleast not left out of important decision I had to tolerate the smoke. I’ve done the same here. I ignore the things I don’t like and make the best of the community where I live, like low-crime. I know I can go for walk with my dogs at anytime of the night and not worry that I’ll be attacked or if I accidently forget to shut my garage door, the risk of something being stolen is low.
I have friends of all races and religions around the US and here in this small community. I treat others the way I want to be treated and find that my own tolerance and acceptence is the most important element to being happy. When you point that finger at others realize there is 3 fingers pointing back at you; in other words, look at yourself first, especially you William!
P.S. I do think change is a good thing and a new Mayor and new City Counsel men and women will bring fresh ideas and possibly a better life for all members of this community.
Ibeducks, your comment is bull and just trying to stir the pot. First of all its illegal and you would have turned them in for it and it is not common place (if it even happened) like you are making it look. Most of these negative comments are out of hate for Mormons. You moved here because of the values, beauty, low crime, etc, take it or leave. Its a great place to live and the diversity here, even though small and growing is also what makes it even better but remember what brought you here in the first place. Most of my friends, even the ones who drink, wouldn’t trade having an extra pub, gambling, more businesses open on Sunday, etc if it meant losing the things that brought them here in the first place.
Well hb or is it bs? first of all I speak from personal experience. Second of all is it is NOT ILLEGAL for a customer to not do business if not an LDS business owner.Deny that your “bishop” doesnt expect you to use only LDS business’ so that your church get’s it 10%. You just showed your “Hatred” of non-morons. you know what i won’t waste anymore of my time with a person like you
Wow once again pretty harsh wording you got there? Sounds like to me you have a big chip on your shoulder.
First of all you said “Just wait till you are in business and the person tells you,”I’m sorry I can’t use you since you’re not a mormon, my bishop will be made at me”. Which gave the impression it was about getting a job with that company.
Now that you cleared that up its even more bogus. Never have I ever heard of ANY bishop or other leader asking LDS members to use only LDS owned companies. And if that business really said that to you than that is wrong of him and that is his problem and not the churchs problem as that is not what is taught. I am a business owner in the business of advertising and I do business with all types of individuals of other faiths or even that promote ideals that I dont agree with but I would never turn their business away and have never felt wrong by doing so. I will not produce work that promotes hate towards others but that is usually where it stops. They are great customers and their ways are their ways only and do not affect me or my family and only then is when I would have an issue.
Another thing that you are wrong about is the 10%. That is a personal thing and no one is doing checks and balances on the members as to whether or not they are fulfilling that. That is an honesty issue with the member themselves. I proudly pay my share to help those in need and you would be surprised to know how much leaves the church and the church does not gloat about it or advertise who they have donated to including other religions and organizations.
Not one thing that I have said shows any hatred to non-Mormons. Several of my best friends are non-Mormon and inactive Mormons and I would never judge them for that. They get their jabs in at me for being Mormon and vise versa and its all in fun.
How dare all of you! Lay claim to religious boundaries, talk of forefathers and the beginnings of Utah. As far as I see it…the only claim to be made is by the true original good ol’ boys – Spiritually born Native Americans that inhabited this region and lived with one value – respect Mother Earth! I often wonder…if my people, and other tribes had views and beliefs like the majority that lay claim…if the outcome would be different today. But only a thought, for we lack the mindset of claiming…and will continue our path of respect to Mothet Earth, I pray you all find your way
The church doesn’t hide ANYTHING from the public. It’s not like they practice their most sacred ceremonies in a big, extravagant building that you can only enter if you tell your ward leader you gave the church 10% of everything you own. And it’s not like they encourage the participants in those rituals to never, ever tell people who HAVEN’T paid 10% of all their income about what happens in those rituals. No masks here! You’re SO right, William Way! Everyone is JUST as racist and homophobic as you are, and you’re SUPER virtuous because your church is the only one in the whole world that isn’t pretending not to be. You deserve a blue ribbon.
No masks, I use my real name – And the way you see it is wrong (But I could be wrong, too)
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This article wholly embodies the regurgitated and tired answers that are the stereotypical Mormon cult staple to any calls for tolerance: “We’re the good guys and we stoically suffer the slings and arrows of the hell-bound, these latter-day Lamanites, who wish to desecrate Zion, this heaven-on-earth. Woe is me.” Or is that Jackson County, Missouri?
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Since you’ve been a drone all your life Mr. Way, it is excusable that you do not understand the intolerance perpetrated against non-Mormons on a daily basis in St. George. (Let’s not even talk about the historical atrocities at Mountain Meadows, treatment of Indians or black people). I don’t begrudge you or any Mormon the fact that you have been indoctrinated from birth or conversion that your beliefs are the singular path to salvation. I won’t even go further into the lengthy arguments I have pertaining to Joseph Smith being a known charlatan and huxter treasure hunter, having more in common as a 19th century L. Ron Hubbard than any ‘prophet’ of God. It is entirely understandable that you would believe as strongly as you do, particularly when dissidence nets you real shunning and perceived eternal damnation. I readily admit that were I a Mormon, I would be hard pressed myself to give up my family, friends, and career to step out into a brave new world of enlightenment free of unhealthy cult guilt. It is a horrible predicament with which that cult (as all do) has entrapped its members.
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But what I cannot forgive, sir, is blind adherence to a way of life which actively intimidates, ostracizes, and even attacks those who are different because of a unique understanding of “sinfulness”. Perhaps even worse, are those individuals who have discerned the truth for themselves, yet remain silent and an active part of the cult’s culture in order to save themselves problems. On a daily basis, my family and I are confronted by neighbors and strangers alike with the very non-public (apart from some internet posts) fact that we are not Mormon. When my (then-to-be) wife first moved here close to 13 years ago and was attending DSC, she was sitting at a table doing some homework when a young man approached her and struck up a conversation. Not two minutes in, he said, “Before we go further, are you LDS?” My wife answered that she wasn’t and without a word, the young man got up and left. Tell me how the mindset that only Mormons are deserving of respectful social graces is only that particular young man’s fault and not part of the Mormon cult culture that non-Mormons are hellbound and evil, vile things not worthy of the time of day? She used to tell me over the telephone (long distance relationship) on a daily basis of the discrimination and bigotry she faced for simply not being part of “THE” church, as if there were a monopoly on Christianity. I used to laugh at her and tell her that it couldn’t be as bad as she was making it out to be; that the scenarios she described were out of a bad comedy/horror flick and were totally incompatible with my 20 some years of experience in (what I would learn is ‘the REST of’) America. She had to have been imagining so much of it.
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Oh how young and naieve I was. I learned first hand how bizarre and closed minded Mormons were to anyone who wasn’t simply a visitor passing through (gotta get their money!) or a serious prospect of conversion to the cult (gotta get their money!). One can’t go a day at work without hearing about religion or associated activities, discussed openly as if it were a normal thing. I tell you, in the rest of America, religion is largely a private thing and not to be discussed openly for non- or different-believers to endure. But not in Utah. I have lost track of the number of times someone whom I meet (including at work!) will stop a conversation near the beginning and ask, “Are you part of THE church?” Eventually, I began to answer that I was (becuase I am Christian). Without fail, the follow up question would then be, “What ward are you in?” My response has become, “The body of Christ doesn’t have wards”, at which point, without fail, the conversation abruptly ends within a minute. Not for any fault on my part, however. I assure you, I say it in a very non-confrontational way; rather, the fault lies with the Mormon cult members who can’t get past the fact that I am hellbound and not worth their time and that I will not convert and therefore am also not worth their time. It has nothing to do with the fact that they don’t like me (because they never took the time to get to know me). It is this aspect of the Mormon cult culture which so infuriates many of us non-Mormons because we’re never given a chance due to Mormon bigotry.
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When we moved into our home in Washington Fields almost 4 years ago we got the typical welcome wagon from the neighborhood. People who lived blocks away came over and introduced themselves as “neighbors” (a title I and the majority of the REST of America reserve for the folks living directly next door or across the street). Without fail, after names and children were introduced during each of twenty or so meetings the question came up in a variety of ways, some of them, admittedly, even pretty savvy to discover our religion. Some of the less creative would simply ask if we were LDS (refreshing, honestly). Others would slip in a, “We haven’t seen you in the ward yet”. The most devious (but creative) would talk as if we were Mormons and watch for our reactions. They’d say things like “Well, Bob is teaching young men’s blah blah blah” or “The relief society will be so happy to have you as a member!”. And, as is a sad unalterable fact of the universe when dealing with all but the rarest of Mormons in a social setting just as the grass is green and the sky is blue, the instant we politely said that we weren’t Mormon their tone of voice changed, their bodies stiffened, and within literally one minute they were excusing themselves, rounding up their kids who were playing nicely on our front lawn with our children, and bee-lining for their house. Without fail. None of them has come by again. They don’t wave. They don’t say hello. Yet my wife and I both work, we keep up our house, we sacrifice greatly to send our children to private schooling and raise them to be well-mannered and have faith in God. We pay our taxes, we participate in the community through volunteering, we coach sport teams, and I can’t tell you how many toddlers I’ve rescued from the busy intersection on our corner and returned them to unthankful parents completely ignorant of the fact that their little one was unaccounted for. We are as upstanding members of the community as any of our neighbors but are treated as utterly contemptable lepers for simply being different. Countless others have voiced similar experiences Mr. Way. Can you deny that they are also being treated intolerantly by Mormons?
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I ask you, sir, are these people singularly to blame? All of them? Or is it a greater failing within the Mormon cult culture that non-Mormons are to be shunned and treated with disrespect? Perhaps it isn’t a formal, written rule. I will grant you that possibility. But can you honestly say that it isn’t part of the culture that we hell-bound aren’t worth the time of day? I’ve heard it argued that the Mormon cult takes up so much time of its members’ lives that they simply can’t afford to deal with people with whom they don’t accidentally trip over at a church function – scouts, relief society, young men’s, young women’s, three hours of church and classes at an assigned time and place like public school enrollment, dances, block parties, home teaching, being a bishop, having a talk with the bishop about your tithing honesty, having a talk with the bishop as a teen about whether you’ve masturbated, going to the temple, etc. I mean, after all, “idle hands do the Devil’s work”, right? And if one is mandated to be at these functions in order to be in good standing (so long as they also pay money) in order to get in the temple and perform baptism by proxy, and use masonic handshakes and code words, and be ‘sealed’ in order to be married ‘for time and all eternity’ with one’s extended family, I suppose I could understand not having time for outsiders simply out of the practicality of being busy. But as Christians we are supposed to treat others the way we wish to be treated. Jesus himself gives us that and its known as the ‘Golden Rule’. So how about some common courtesy? Or are Mormons excused from that because Joseph Smith didn’t say it or they didn’t read it in a Bible “so long as it was translated accurately”? Truly, from a victim’s perspective, Mormons seem to have more in common with Muslims in their practice of taqiyya and kitman – lying and permitted maltreatment of infidels and apostates because they are undeserving of equal treatment as the hell-bound – than with Christians.
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The problem doesn’t lie solely in the area of social graces either, Mr. Way. Were that the crux of the matter, I’d not have a complaint because I can shun with the best of them, and would actually not mind being left alone. But we’re not left alone. Being a non-Mormon follows us everywhere in Utah, including the work place, and it is no fault of our own. I mentioned before the constant conversation at work pertaining to religious beliefs and activities. I likened it once to a boss as people in New York talking about the Yankees: it’s everywhere and its seemingly unstoppable. Again, I don’t begrudge people their faith, nor do I begrudge them the private practice of that faith in peace. It might not be for me, but what is done in the privacy of one’s home or heart and does not harm others is absolutely none of my business. But what I am intolerant of is forcing others to be party to it. One can live one’s faith privately without bringing others into it. One can take a stand on a topic and not overtly bring religion into it. One can have a quiet conversation with a co-worker and be mindful that others might not only not want to hear it, but might be greatly offended by talk about Mormonism being the only path to salvation. Believe it or not, but I don’t want to hear about how your magic underwear is riding up on you today. I don’t want to hear about your boyfriend going on a mission and you having trouble debating to remain with him or date other people. I don’t want to hear about how your friend talked to the bishop about his/her spouse’s infidelity. I don’t want to hear you boast about not drinking coffee because you follow a man-made “word of wisdom”, particularly when you sit and gulp caffeinated coca cola by the gallon. Its not only none of my business (gossip) but it is distinctly religious, and of a religion that I believe is a lie and inspired by Satan to use a kernel of truth (Christ) to at best be a stumbling block to and at worst bring people away from salvation in Christ through devotion to false prophets and man-made laws. And yet I and others are forced on a daily basis to not only have to endure such conversation, but we are also confronted outright in instances by employers. I held a job at a local company as a security guard and my direct supervisor asked me if I was a Mormon. Granted, this was after I was hired, however, it is a wholly inappropriate question as it is no one’s business, and it serves to create a social dynamic where there ought not be one. I flat out told him that it was unacceptable for him to ask that question and he backed down, but not without attempting to reconcile by stating that he was a Mormon and he wanted to know if I could be someone to share his faith with. As a non-Mormon and non-Utahn, I can’t tell you how utterly repulsive such a question is to me. I liken it to asking a person what sexual acts they perform with their spouse. Religion is a private thing and doesn’t belong in the workplace, just the same as such a shockingly intimate question about marital relations doesn’t belong in the open. I know friends who have been denied jobs because they didn’t look to espouse “Mormon values”. I’ve seen the ads looking for workers who share “Mormon values”. I’ve even been asked by someone calling in to my work to hand the phone to a Mormon because the person didn’t believe I could handle their problem. How did they know I wasn’t one? They asked; I certainly didn’t volunteer that information because in my line of work it is entirely without merit. In the end I ended up helping them quite competently, much to their chagrin. Countless others have voiced similar experiences Mr. Way. Can you deny that they are also being treated intolerantly by Mormons?
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All of these interactions don’t come from the ether, Mr. Way. They come from the cult culture of Mormonism that its members embrace with fervent zeal lest they be cast into ‘outer darkness’ for thinking for themselves. Because the people have their heads stuck so far in the sand, it only follows that their laws do as well. You may argue in favor of laws which enforce your morality upon others, and you have every right to do so. In fact, all laws are an imposition of morality by the majority. Usually, we all can agree that a law is needed; for example, speeding laws. I think 99.9% of people will agree that we shouldn’t go 80 MPH in a school zone. We realize that children can’t run that fast, often make stupid decisions and go in the road without looking, and we recognize that our children are our future and value them so we restrain ourselves from speeding to their and our benefit. However, if we take that same speed limit law on St. George Blvd (30 or 35 MPH?) many of us will disregard it without a second thought. I, myself, regularly go 40-50 MPH on the Blvd because I am confident in my driving skills, there are hardly ever any police officers on it when I drive it, and I don’t like sitting behind old people putzing on a large road. I am selfish and do what I want, at risk, because I believe I can get away with it. I do not share the common moral judgement, and (though it can if I get in an accident) it doesn’t hurt anyone besides myself if I get a speeding ticket. I know the overwhelming majority of people out there speed as well, and Mr. Way, I’d put money on it that you do too.
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Regarding your stance against bars and drinking alcohol, while I do not drink like a fish anymore (former marine and former professional alcoholic) I enjoy a drink now and then. I don’t have the time or the money for it like I used to because of my chosen and loved family responsibilities, but I wouldn’t mind a night out with the guys having some beers and shots. It’s quite possible to drink for an entire night without becoming intoxicated and simply have a good buzz. I’ve done it many times watching sporting events with some of my closest friends and we’re none the worse for wear. I, myself, don’t think we need more bars per se, but relaxed liquor laws. This town certainly could use a great piano bar like Durty Nelly’s in San Antonio. I assure you, you’re missing out on a fine piece of entertainment by having never been there – even if you don’t drink. It’s a raucus good time with some bawdy humor thrown in. Again, I’m none the worse for wear and neither would our town or young people be to have such a venue to relax in. Sure, there’d be some issues that arise, but responsible planning and choices by adults can mitigate that. The biggest problem with legislating morality is that you show distrust for the decision making of others, as if you alone are clairvoyant. The moment you say, “Thou shalt not” you must enforce. Just as in the movie ‘Footloose’ and ‘Jurassic Park’, nature finds a way.
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In reference to your implied stance against Gay Rights (I assume you are a good little drone and drank the cult’s kool-aid) what people do in their own homes has absolutely no bearing on others and is absolutely none of our business (mine or yours). Unlike my speeding, which we all do and which could cause an accident and harm others, if a man wants to love a man or a woman wants to love a woman, there is no negative effect on the public. Unless, of course, you’re worried about all that gay sex they’ll be having; all those naked, sweaty, writhing bodies enjoying life beyond the missionary position. Unless, of course, you think that it is your business to know what’s going on between individuals in the bedroom. In which case you’ve either got a closeted fetish (Mormon swinger stereotype perhaps?) or you’re a voyeur, which is a criminal and sociopathic behavior.In any case, Mr. Way, you are an intolerant bigot because you choose to enslave others to your way of thinking in private matters when they have the God-given right to choose – or don’t Mormons believe in ‘free agency’ anymore? You may be proud to be one, but a bigot you are nonetheless. I don’t begrudge you your beliefs so long as you practice them for yourself or discuss them with willing individuals. But when you begin to advocate forcing them upon others when there is no public need or danger, you have crossed the line. Are you against gays being treated like human beings? Are you against respecting the free choice of others whom you consider beneath yourself and your high falutent moral capacity? Are you against them getting your precious tax breaks? Or are you actually trying to save them the problems of domestic violence and other relationship woes that only befall us married straight folk? Are you actually secretly advocating that marriage for everyone should be illegal, and this is the first step in your grand design?
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There’s an American philosopher named George Sher who wrote an essay entitled “But I could be wrong” http://www.princetonphilosophy.com/background/moraldisagreement.pdf
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In it, he posits that while all human beings are raised with an insular world view that theirs is the only correct way to live, were we to be born in any other culture or time we would embrace those beliefs rather than our own. If I were born 1000 years ago in Scandinavia, I would be a Viking warrior who believed in Odin and settled disputes of honor through holmgang. Were you to have been born in ancient China, you’d have been a taoist or buddhist and if you were rich you’d have bound your daughter’s feet, permanently crippling her without her consent to show that she came from an elite family and she could afford to not have to be bothered with such mundane tasks as working…..or walking for that matter. Others of us would be worshippers of Quetzalcoatl and sacrificed the hearts of our enemies to ensure the sun would rise the next day. Still others would believe that having our photos taken would steal our souls, or that letting blood releases ill humors and promotes health. Some of us would even practice child immolation to Molech and Baal in ancient Canaan or Phoenicia. And as backwards and vile as some of these practices are to our modern, educated, civilized, western, christian morality, we would have all believed them without question, without fail and seen anyone who thought differently as a “barbarian” or some other form of heathen outsider worthy only of our contempt. But would we have been right to do so?
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Obviously, the answer is no because there is no proof. How can we justify our crazy beliefs when we would have held others just as equally bizarre or repugnant? In truth, until we practice or participate in an activity or belief, we can’t know that it truly is unquestionably good or bad, right or wrong, or simply ‘ok for them, but not for me’. Now, does that mean we have to participate in every sort of activity or belief under the sun? If we truly want to know for ourselves, yes. Scared yet? But until we do that, we have only our upbringing and social norms to guide us. Our parents may tell us not to stick our hands in the fire, but until we do, do we truly understand why they say it? No, and often it is only by touching the flame that we learn that those in our culture and family might know what they’re talking about. And so, we grow up with societal norms through which to view the world and make decisions because that’s all we have – but it doesn’t make them infallible. We BELIEVE that our way is right because it has worked for us and others. But do we truly know? Dr. Sher argues that we don’t, and I agree. That’s not to say that one must take every illicit hallucinogenic drug out there to see if all the science, news reports, and police tapes are correct that they will screw with your mind and quite probably cause one to do very dangerous and illegal things, but until one does, one truly doesn’t know concretely what the effects are. Sher calls making such choices to the best of one’s ability in one’s own interest without all the evidence “bad faith”. But he advocates living in bad faith when necessary because it’s the best we can do sometimes. However, that is far from advocacy of choosing to remain ignorant and making choices without due diligence and proper investigation. Truly, it is best to investigate things fully before making a decision, and when we can’t (not when we won’t, but can’t) then we should feel some shame in making a choice in ‘bad faith’ because we’re making moral judgments on our fellow human beings and, when in the majority, possibly negatively affecting their lives and livelihoods through legislation when, had we been raised as they, would be living their lifestyle and holding their beliefs, and suffering the consequences of intolerant moral imposition.
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I encourage you, Mr. Way, and any Mormon readers out there to not hate us because we sin differently than you. Your inflated sense of taking the high road by ‘tolerating the intolerant’ will come back to bite you. Change is coming. The sway of the Mormon cult over public life is being diluted daily though immigration (hispanics who are no longer afraid to remain Catholic, whites who simply won’t tolerate Mormon bigotry, and an influx of young peopleand my beloved ‘jack mormons’), social media, and mormons (inactive and recovering) simply becoming tired of the same old thing. There will always be strongholds, and there will always be individuals who choose to be Mormon – and that’s fine. Again, I can’t stress enough how strongly I advocate allowing people to live their lives of faith privately so long as others aren’t affected. But the tidal wave of reform is coming. It may take longer – Utah always seems to be 10-20 years behind the rest of America when it comes to change, but change is coming nonetheless, and your kind will be relegated to a relic of history; a curiosity much the same as the polygamists of Colorado City are viewed as a backwards thorn in the side of Utah by current, mainstream Mormons. Actually, that analogy is pretty correct, as Utah is itself America’s Colorado City.
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Mr. Way, will you sink or swim?
Oh Matt, I miss you. I wish I could have worked with you more during training and picked that brain of yours and who knows, I might have been successful. Either way, it would have been a hell of a ride. and the conversation would have been splendid.
Mike! So very good to hear from you. I hope all is well!
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I’d enjoy those conversations too. Drop me a line sometime.
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Semper Fi Robert! I won’t be running for any office soon – too honest for political games.
Matthew, thank you for such a beautifully written response to this article!! Absolutely brilliant!! You have garnered my vote for any public seat, should you ever choose to run!! Oh, and Semper Fi, Brother!!
The “author” of this article is taking a well deserved bashing . Ignorance is bliss!
Wow Mr. Way. Thank you for perfectly illustrating the attitude that makes those of us who aren’t in the majority feel unwelcome here.
stgnews, please get real and stop publishing rubbish like this. wow. I cannot believe what i just read. remove william way from your payroll please. even if he writes for free(maybe he does?), please dont allow it anymore. thanks
Hang on pete…..I think we need to read between the lines here.
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Don’t get down on the St. George News just yet – I think Joyce is actually doing us a favor.
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By publishing this asinine political commentary, she’s not providing him a platform to preach his gospel, rather she’s giving him an opportunity to show us what he and his kind are really like.
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This article telegraphs the enemies’ punches; let’s us know how they’re going to proceed in the next elections. This is a look in their playbook and they’re so overconfident of their impending victory that they contemptuously let us know their plans right in broad daylight.
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Based on prior voter turnout, they might not be wrong in their assumption that they will win, but just like the tortoise and the hare, slow and steady wins the race. Let them keep this up. Keep the righteous anger burning until the embers are enough amongst us all to ignite a raging inferno that destroys their house of cards.
I’m amazed this actually got published. Not because it was controversial, but because it’s such a rambling, incoherent. piece. The thesis is unclear, the supporting paragraphs and metaphors say nothing, and the author, at times, actually seems confused. As an example: “Too often the mask is a mask of the mask itself. What?” I agree with him on the ‘what.’
He uses the word tolerance as would a ten-year-old who, delighted as its discovery, repeats it until the syllables sound strange and foreign . He uses quotation marks like the same “ten-year-old” who hasn’t “learned” how they actually “work.” They’re not sarcasm marks, for God’s sake. They actually have a correct literary use.
And his defenders will say, “Hey, Broadboard, I see you’re not addressing any of his points. When you actually have a real rebuttal, let us know.” To which I respond: Would you really “tolerate” me in “unmasking” the “mask” that is “masking” his “masked” “intentions of “tolerance?”
Why do you publish crap like this, St. George News?
I lived in St. George for about five years before moving on to bigger and better things. At no point did I feel “welcome” in the area…and I am not an outwardly “different” person (male, middle-class, straight, white, married, no tattoos/piercings, etc.). Just the fact that I was not a member of the LDS church, nor was I in any way interested in joining up, was enough for me to be ostracized by my peers at work and by people in the community once they realized that I was not “one of them”.
Southern Utah is a wonderful place. It would be that much more wonderful without the people who are hateful (yes, I use the word “hateful” deliberately) toward those who believe differently and without the laws in place that restrict the ability of adults to live their lives the way they so choose without being dictated values that do not match their own (I thought this was “anti-big government” country, after all).
On the bright side, as the old adage goes, “progress happens one funeral at a time”…and, considering the average age in the St. George area, progress should continue at full speed.
I lived in St. George for almost five years before moving on. At no point did I feel truly “welcome” in the area…and I am not an “outwardly different” person (male, middle-class, straight, white, married, no tattoos/piercings, etc.). Just the fact that I was not a member of the LDS church, nor was I in any way interested in joining up, was enough for me to be ostracized by some of my peers at work and by many people in the community once they realized that I was not “one of them”.
I welcome (read: tolerate) people of all faiths in my life. Despite my less-than-stellar experience in St. George, I made friends with many LDS church members. We’re good as long as you do not try to force those beliefs on me. Unfortunately, many people in the area seem bent on forcing their beliefs on others and, oftentimes, it results in people being treating as “second-class” in the community.
Southern Utah is a wonderful place. It would be that much more wonderful without the people who are hateful (yes, I use the word “hateful” deliberately) toward those who believe differently and without the laws in place that restrict the ability of adults to live their lives the way they so choose without being dictated values that do not match their own (I thought this was “anti-big government” country, after all…?).
On the bright side, as the old adage goes, “progress happens one funeral at a time”…and, considering the average age in the St. George area, progress should continue at full speed ahead.
Mr. Way,
I want more bars so I can drink without discretion and without having to drive a long way.
There. That was perfectly blunt and honest. Now is your highly tolerant majority going to support my desire to make an adult decision for myself about what legal substances I consume, or are you going to simply take it upon yourselves to impose your own decisions about alcohol on me? I am perfectly tolerant of your choice NOT to drink – all I ask is that you are equally tolerant of my choice TO drink.
The whole “we are the tolerant ones, those calling us intolerant are just not tolerating our right to be intolerant!” argument is tired. It doesn’t go anywhere. Let’s simplify this whole mess rather than keep circling ’round the drain. Intolerance has nothing to do with thoughts and opinions. Intolerance has to do with action.
It is intolerant to pass laws that deny someone rights to certain action simply because they are different – for instance, gay marriage. It is intolerant because it’s telling someone they can’t DO something – they can’t get married – just because they don’t fit in with the perceived social norm.
It is NOT intolerant to call someone who is being intolerant, intolerant. That is simply “disagreeing.” Saying that your viewpoint is intolerant or bigoted does not in any way restrict your right to hold that viewpoint. You can think whatever you’d like. You can feel however you’d like. You can believe whatever you’d like. As long as those evil non-Mormons aren’t preventing you from being a Mormon and worshipping as a Mormon and participating in Mormon culture at whatever capacity you choose, THEY AREN’T BEING INTOLERANT. They are simply disagreeing with you.
This rally cry of perceived discrimination that many Mormons are clinging to lately is such utter nonsense. You are not granted the right to make other people’s decisions for them, even if you are the social (and, in your eyes, moral) majority. As Larry Flynt so eloquently said, “Majority rule will only work if you’re considering individual rights. You can’t have five wolves and one sheep vote on what they want to have for supper.”
very little support for this article. the mormons are even bashing him. Would your bishop or god like you not defending the faith?
Interesting perspective. Given the thousands of people that read the St. George News and the tens of thousands of people that live in Southern Utah I would question if a scant 40 comments in opposition actually represent any more a “a little” opposition to this article.
The lofty rhetoric of some comments is overshadowed by the intolerance which you demonstrate in your comments. What is fascinating is that so many of you are proving the point of what I have said. Thank you.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Mr. Way, you still don’t get it. You put it out there, you get ROASTED, and manage to brush it off as just a few misguided individuals. Hmmm. Now where in the world would you have learned the ability to do that?
William W Way Jr……..does the “W” stand for “Wrong”?
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I’m still waiting for a response to my ‘lofty rhetoric’. Can you logically explain away the scenarios I’ve presented without simply blaming it on the victims? Is your position defensible for the public good and not simply your own ego? I’ve admitted where I could be wrong and given you the benefit of the doubt in several instances. I am more than willing to re-evaluate my position when presented with evidence because I am intellectually honest. The questions I posed to you are very real, and shouldn’t be beyond your ‘lofty’ BYU education, unless, of course, you are educated beyond your intellect, which more and more seems to be the case.
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I offer you the opportunity for debate on this topic and you deftly ignore and shy away from (undoubtedly with years of practiced cherry picking the lowest fruit) the scrutinizing intellect which would expose your fetid and stagnant world view to the unrelenting, scouring light of truth. I am the bleach to your mildew, Mr. Way. It is readily apparent that your article was simply intended to serve as a rallying cry to the faithful that Tara Dunn is to be destroyed at all costs. That is who you are talking about, Mr. Way, is it not? For some, it would be hard to tell because you supposedly were operating without a mask while purposely obfuscating your attack. For some, not for me. You conveniently failed to mention her name, referring only to a female candidate, so as to avoid culpability when the unthinking masses went to the polls. By planting the seed of doubt for a female in their minds, the drones (already deep within a culture of misogyny) would be further encouraged to write her off simply because of her gender and “non-Mormon” ways, rather than on the true merit of her ideas. For you and your ilk, all that matters is maintaining Mormon hegemony .Your methods reek of the Inquisition, drum head trials, and witch hunts of yesteryear Mr. Way.
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I admit that I was looking forward to practice some verisimilitude with you. You have strong opinions and I was hoping they would be backed by some sort of reasoned argument waiting to be unleashed. Sadly, however, you have taken the rout of every Mormon apologist I know by smugly avoiding fact and truth. I still welcome your rebuttal Mr. Way, though Fidei Defensor thou art not.
I like this area and when I moved here in ’07 expected to stay a long time. It’s been a long time and nothing has changed. I’m ok with it because I don’t have to tolerate the prejudice and believe me I have a flat out against the law prejudice that certainly made me decide “I’m relocating”! I hope people who say times are changing are right, I’ll pray for you to my own god, and someday I may be back – nah probably not. I’ll soon be welcoming greater diversity and tolerance, as you call it, from all kinds of folks. In the rear view mirror very soon. I will miss all my friends named “Jack”
Mr. Way
You are a clueless self righteous idiot who is so blinded and so controlled that your brain has checked out if reality.
Do you know of any religion that controls their members right down to their underwear??? Any other religion that will keep parents from attending their children’s marriages, or will disown their children for not going on missions because it makes them look bad or parents that will look the other way knowing their children are heroin addicts but not wanting to expose that and get them help again it doesn’t look good so you pretend you know nothing when your children overdose and die it happens way to often in this town. Your kids can’t live up to the perfection you require of them. You live for performing all the works that are expected of you from The Church while you are commanded to live by grace not works and that by grace you will be saved. I realize you are encouraged not to read the actual Bible because you might actually find the truth not because it is not accurate. You need to be fired for stupidity.
I would love to write as eloquent a rebuttal as Matthew Sevald, but I’m not as gifted with language. However I would like to say this: I live in St. George. I moved here as a Mormon and this is where I was living when I resigned my membership in the LDS church. I didn’t resign because I was offended by anyone in the church. In fact, I would say that I’ve been treated far better by the LDS here than I was when I lived in Utah County. That being said, I have a Christian friend who was harrassed by a Mormon Supervisor for smoking in her automobile on company property. Mind you, the company has no policy against smoking in your personal automobile while you are on break.
When said coworker asked about the policy (went over the supervisor’s head) said Supervisor continued to harrass her and tried to employ me (I was still Mormon at the time) to catch the non-LDS woman smoking in the stairwells. I was never able to because it never happened.
That coworker and I became friends and I finally disclosed to her the conspiracy to catch her smoking in the stairwells of the building. This began to unweave a web of conspiracy against the non-LDS woman by her LDS supervisors and coworkers which seemed to be founded on the basis of her being non-LDS and being a single mother. And no, this is not why I resigned from the LDS church.
My own personal experience with intollerance came one day while I was reading a Bible in the breakroom and was asked by a coworker, “Are you LDS?” to which I replied, “No, I resigned last week.” She said, “I’m sorry.” (as if to imply that I made the wrong choice), got up, and left. How would that have been perceived if I’d seen her reading the Book of Mormon, asked, “Are you Mormon?” and then told her, “Oh, I’m sorry.”?
My resignation from the LDS church has to do with being forced into a system that rewards you for conformity and punishes you for thinking for yourself. What lead me to leaving the LDS church was reading “The History of Joseph Smith by His Mother” purchased at LDS owned Deseret Book. This is a book that Brigham Young actually had gathered up and destroyed. Does that sound tolerant to you?
In just a few years living here in St. George things are changing. It will be like Salt Lake City with grown up things to do! Gay bars, swing bars, underground clubs, dance clubs…fun fun fun!
It just takes time. More to come! And I can’t wait to see other cultures, races and listen to different languages, all sorts of religion and spiritual connection as one. LDS will be the minority…it won’t be long.
So the main points are:
I find your intolerance of my intolerance intolerable.
Anybody that thinks the mormon majority that controls everything, has control of everything is just stupid.
People who don’t like the status quo are sinners among the Lord’s faithful. (They are irresponsible drinkers.)
Obviously we are better than those guys. If we weren’t, the cards wouldn’t be so very stacked in our favor. (And if this were Sunday, I’d have at least 5 restored gospel scriptures to share that clearly state our elect place in the order of things.)
There’s one response to Matthew Sevald — SNIP. Trying to clog NSA’s servers aren’t ya?
Get a life.
You know, I wasn’t even going to vote Tuesday, but now I am. I’m going to vote for Tara Dunn, just so that William Way has one more vote against him. Thank you for removing your mask William and exposing us to your true self. And thank you for bringing religion into politics, after all, it’s the way the good ol’ boys have always played the game here in Utah. And frankly, I could not care less if I have to drive to Mesquite for a bar it’s just lost revenue for St. George.
This article is SO prejudiced and so uninformed. Both my mother (in her 80s) and I lived in St. George as adults. I Know the truth from first-hand experience. It was a horrible existence because of LDS control and prejudice towards those not LDS–even against church members who were from “California.” The community didn’t want those kind of intruders. Children in the neighborhood who overheard their parents talking negatively against my mother because she wasn’t LDS, plus was from California to boot, would throw raw eggs on her house. Try to scrub that off after the hot St. George sun bakes it on–especially for an 80-year-old woman. She tried to operate a secretarial service out of her home to bring in a little more money, but when the neighborhood found out she wasn’t LDS, it was announced in priesthood and other meetings to stop giving her any business. (One of her few LDS friends told her this who was in the meeting.) After that announcement, her business fell off so badly she had to bring it to an end. I’ve also received emails from non-Mormons (Christians) who have moved to SLC and elsewhere tell me about the ostracism their children receive in the schools. Well, I could go on.
You’ve got to be kidding! Mormons “wear no masks?” Since when? The entire religion is based on deceptions, and those deceptions continue to the present day.
In the beginning, the con man Joseph Smith deceived a bunch of dolts and villains into giving him money and women, and then, believe it or not, things went downhill from there.
The Mountain Meadow Massacre, for instance, was a massive deception. Pious Mormon mass murderers ruthlessly killed over a hundred innocent men, women, and children, and then left their robbed and naked unburied bodies to rot and be scattered by wild animals. And then they blamed it on the local Indian tribe. No masks indeed.
And now in spite of massive historical evidence pointing to the falseness of Mormon doctrine, Mormons continue to fool themselves and each other.
They have a much more difficult time selling that fake bill of goods to discerning non-Mormons though, don’t they?
Get real Mr. Way . . . Your religion is as phony as a three dollar bill.